Michael Henaghan Clinic Update

We have received confirmation that the Michael Henaghan Clinic is rescheduled for October 17 & 18, 2015.  We are thrilled and honored to have him back and hope everyone will take advantage of  this great opportunity!

Registrations are now open and accepted through the registration portal of the website.  Anyone who prefers submitting payment via check please contact me directly and I will forward the pdf registration form via email.   All entries (including snail mail) must be received by September 20 to be considered for a spot.

Updates of available openings and participation schedules will be posted via future blogs and Facebook updates.  Stay tuned!

Things to ponder...

When Too Much Freedom Becomes Detrimental

 Monday, June 29, 2015

I used to work as an editor for a regional newspaper. When dealing with freelancers I always tried to grant them as much freedom as possible. I didn't want to order them around or be too narrow with my asks. Just because if I'd been a freelancer I would have wished for being treated like that. I would have wanted the editor to trust me that I will deliver on time - without him having to tread on my toes and micromanaging me. 

My intention was a good one - but it didn't always work out in everyday work life. I made the mistake to project my needs onto others. Of course, some people need freedom and responsibility. But others need clear orders and boundaries - and with my rather lax attitude I didn't live up to the needs of these freelancers.

I think, with horses, it's similar.
There are some horses that demand more room for themselves. And there are others that yield willingly to the human and make way for him to decide for the two of them. 
If I am that type of human who has clear expectations and demands and I meet a horse from the first category, we might end up fighting. Because I am not quite flexible enough to adjust to the horse's needs and to grant him more say then I would like to. I think a horse of the second category will have an easier time to accept strong leadership. 
I, with my "I'll grant you freedom"-attitude on the other hand will probably confuse a horse of the second category because I don't communicate clearly enough. My behavior creates misunderstandings.

Like a few weeks ago, when I was working with the project horse from the ground. I wanted to send him out on a circle to the right. Instead he came in with his ears pricked, posing a question. I like questions as they prove that the horse is mentally engaged and communicating. This is why I consider it rather rude to answer with a "no, get the hell out of here on that circle!". But if I wait too long giving the horse a pause in the middle with me I create confusion rather then do good to our relationship. Because my initial aid "please go out on the circle to the right" turns into "yes please come in" for the horse. 
If I ask for the circle the next time, the horse will likely offer to come in again instead of traveling on the circle around me. If I then send him out with energy, the misunderstanding is complete. Once I said "go" and was okay with "whoa". The next time I said "go" and insisted on "go". 

This is a mistake I make quote often. I want to support the horse's mental engagement and I dont' want to be overly critical. But over this I become wishy washy with my signals. A response like "no, this was not the answer, try again" in the end is more helpful to the horse than having to correct him in the end because I accepted something I actually didn't want in the first place. 

Just to give you another example of this: A few weeks ago I was riding a friend's horse. The mare had experienced some bad handling and wasn't too keen on backing up. Too much pressure on the bit she usually comments with rooting the head. I wanted her to move out from a standstill. But she shifted her weight back and offered to back up. Instead of keeping up my aids until she found the forwards, I released. Because I was happy how willingly she offered the backup. Asking her to move out again, she naturally offered the backup again - and already I had created a misunderstanding. 

Do you also have mistakes that you make over and over again?

Nadja

Things to ponder...

Why It’s Never, Ever the Horse’s Fault

July 28, 2015

by Charles Wilhelm

“It’s Never, Ever the Horse’s Fault” has been my slogan for many years now. One of the biggest and most important truths that I have learned over the years is the fact that what we consider “bad behavior” is a manifestation of natural instinct and that behavior is never, ever that horse’s fault. This truth is critically important for me as a trainer but it is also important for you as an owner. There was a time, maybe 40 years ago, when I thought bad behavior was the horse’s fault. That was the way we thought in those days. As the years passed, I began to think that the horse caused 75% of the problems and that I was responsible for 25% of the problems. This line of thinking progressed until I came to think of it as 50/50 and then later as 75% my fault and 25% the horse’s. Now I know that 100% of the issues with any horse, what we call problems, have a human cause. In the last 15 years it has been my slogan that it is never, ever the horse’s fault. I truly believe this, even though I have had many people dispute it, and this is why.  

A horse is born to buck, kick, rear, bite, and strike. They can also go in six different directions and by this I mean that a horse can go right, left, up, down, forward and back. These are manifestations of the fight and flight instinct. Horses also come with emotions, which are a part of the flight instinct. And, along with the flight instinct, there is natural resistance. The more flight instinct, the more resistant the horse will be. These traits historically helped them survive in the wild. On a scale of one to ten, with ten being a high emotional level, the average young domestic horse has an emotional level of six or seven. With handling and training the level will drop to a three or four. You can’t eliminate the emotions and you don’t want to because with no emotion, a horse will be cold blooded, lethargic, without forwardness and dull in nature. 

There are horses that come into the barn for training or who were born with a tremendous amount of flight instinct. I’ve had mustangs here that I would rate at twenty on the scale and others who I would rate at six. I have also had domestic horses that I rate at twenty so it is not the breed that determines the emotional level. Some horses just have a higher level than others. The reason I mention the flight instinct is that to have an animal that is both safe and a pleasure to ride, we have to train the horse to respond to our directional cues and to stop when we ask it to stop. Some horses are more compliant and others have a great deal of fight in them and want to argue with everything you try to do. So whatever type of horse you have, low or high emotion, compliant or highly resistant, the training of the horse must first take these traits into account. 

Another factor to consider in training is the type of mind the horse has. A horse may have a normal flight instinct but take longer to connect the dots and “get” what you are trying to teach it. I have found that some horses that take a little longer to learn actually wind up being better horses because I work with them longer and the basic foundation is more solid. Horses that pick up new commands quickly don’t take as long to train but this can actually be a hindrance. We may go too fast in the training and not take the time to set the foundation blocks solidly. We think the horse has it because he picked it up quickly but the building blocks may not be solid. When we go on to something else that builds on the first foundation block, we may find the understanding of the cues was not solid and there are holes in our training.

The conformation of a horse also impacts the training and performance. A horse that has bad feet and is tender footed whether barefoot or shod, is limited in the amount of time it can be worked and the discipline it can be worked in. Conformation is also something for you to think about in regard to training your horse. That’s why I say it is never, ever the horse’s fault. As owners, we need to recognize the type of horse we have and approach training accordingly.

As an owner and a trainer you have taken on the responsibility for your horse. The biggest part of owning a horse is learning how to communicate with and to train the horse. As humans we usually try to communicate with horses using our language. For some reason we think the horse must understand what we are saying. This is totally backward. We must learn to understand the horse’s language and the way they communicate. So, if you are having a problem with your horse, what you need to do is stop looking at it as his fault. See if you are communicating incorrectly or giving mixed messages. Think back and try to determine what you may be doing wrong. For example, are you trying to get your horse to lope but holding tight to the reins and using them for balance? Or, maybe you had another type of issue and didn’t follow through sufficiently to get the horse to understand. 

I have a horse here at the barn now with a very high emotional level. I believe he was started wrong and hasn’t had much real training. He brings to the training a lot of old baggage because of this. It will take awhile to get through all that stuff and rebuild. We have to replace the bad with the good and it is going to take time. Does it get frustrating? Absolutely. Can it be done quickly? Frankly, no it can’t be done quickly. It is going to take as long as it takes. And that is true with any horse. A horse may learn one lesson easily and because of something in his past, have real problems learning something else.

When you are in the arena or out on the trail and you are having a problem, think about what you have or haven’t done. Did you round pen the horse, lunge or do any ground work before you got on? Or, did you just saddle up and head out? How much training has your horse had to handle the situation? Have you spent enough time on de-spooking so that things on the trail are of less concern? 

It is also possible that it may be just the wrong horse for you. I can usually assess fairly quickly if a horse is going to work out for an owner but when a horse comes in with a lot of old baggage, I can’t be sure if the horse will or won’t work out. While it is not the fault of the horse, the luggage or problems still exist. Not everyone can ride a spirited Arab, a reining cow horse or a horse that is a bully. You may be happier and better off with a good, solid, compliant trail horse and it may be better for the horse as well. Not every horse is right for every rider and you need to consider all of these things and that is why it is never, ever the horse’s fault when you are having problems.

Things to ponder...

being with horses blog spot:  

Something to think about

I am a perfectionist. In many ways. Being a perfectionist sucks. In many ways. But especially when being with horses. 
Unfortunately the horse industry and other horse people insinuate that you have to be perfect in order to live up to your horse. I have no idea how that is at your place, but here in Germany it becomes ridiculous.

I love the internet as it enables me to write and have my articles actually read by interested people (and not only by the ones I force to). We have the latest information easily available, we can read the newest publications, view videos of popular trainers, and we can swap ideas with people from all over the world who we wouldn't have met otherwise.

But on the other head we are confronted with a lot of opinions, and worse, a lot of choices. Years ago, life was simpler. You just did what you were told - by your instructor, your farrier, your vet. These days considering the information available it's easy to challenge the old institutions and ask questions. And our trust goes out of the window. 
Thanks to the internet we turn into semi-experts, be it horse nutrition, saddle fitting, horse training or trimming. I feel quite well informed in either of these areas. But having read 4 articles and one book on barefoot trimming doesn't necessarily enable me to do it myself. The same applies for the other cases. 
Knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I find that I mistrust our vet (and I have been right doing so), I believe most farriers tell fairytales and most riding instructors simply have no clue. That makes me biased, distrustful and hard to please. Not exactly an easy client to deal with (and of course I scold myself because I don't work out. Isn't it that as a rider you are obliged to stay fit for your horse?) On the other hand thanks to my thirst for knowledge I am able to help the horses I deal with some more than other people might.

It's a double edged sword, really.

I don't want the old days back. I have never been someone who likes to be told what to do. I've always questioned the why. But sometimes I wish things were easieragain. Less bagage when being with horses, less insecurity to do the right thing. Less choice, more trust. 
How do you feel about that?

Traders Point Follow Up

Just a quickie follow up to the July 7th Traders Point Reminder Blog...

We did not receive requests to complete Traders Point registrations on behalf of anyone so if you're intending to show, please submit your stall reservations by July 22nd (meaning the entries HAVE TO BE POSTMARKED by July 22nd in order to be considered timely).  Without paid stall reservations it is guaranteed that you will not be able to secure a stall for yourself at this show, no exceptions.   The entry form along with the prize list can be accessed here:

Things to ponder...

being with horses blogspot:  Horsemanship

I am currently sort of redefining my way with horses. Horsemanship is a journey not a goal and I am always interested in what other trainer and horse people have to offer and how their approach to horses is. I am no big fan of clicker training (which is becoming hugely popular here in Germany), but funny enough I get to know people who I really appreciate and who are huge proponents of the clicker stuff. That does not mean that I am adapting their ways, of course, but still it influences my thinking. On the other hand, Warwick Schiller's way with horses is stricter (maybe even harder) than the horsemanship I have been practicing so far. 
Let me give you an example how these two pretty opposing ways of being with horses have influenced what I do. 
Few days ago I worked with a Norwegian Fjord horse, a mare, 18 years old and an attitude on 4 feet. It is not that she is bad behaving, she just assumes she knows everything there is to know about humans. Communicating with her feels like screaming, and the vocabulary we share consist of 4 words. Sophisticated would be something rather different. With her, I chose the "clicker person", meaning a softer approach. I turned her loose and let her decide for herself what she wanted to do and if she wanted to interact. That was an option that hadn't been offered to her in the past - and which got me her attention. Instead of working on achieving responsiveness or yielding to pressure I worked on her interest. 
Today, I worked with a Palomino gelding, a pretty high strung horse with separation issues (at least that is what the owners said). I chose the "harder" approach. Instead of allowing him to do what he wanted (looking around and being concerned) I made clear that he is not allowed to walk into me and that he can rest at some distance next to me. When he looked away, I directed his head back to me (it didn't take much). I clearly communicated what was right and what was wrong. We basically passed the time standing around, doing some desensitizing and then a friend showed up and we talked, with the horse waiting patiently. He relaxed quickly and his tension went away almost completely. I doubt that I would have achieved anything if I had allowed him to do what he wanted. 
This is why I try to keep an open mind - horses are different and have different needs.

Things to ponder...

being with horses blogspot:  The Basis Of Good Horsemanship

 Sunday, June 07, 2015 

What is most important being with horses? Fairness, patience, leadership skills? The right method with the right techniques?

I think all of these are valid ideas. But for me, the basis is something different: Our awareness and our attentiveness. Not only for the big but especially for the subtle things. For nuances in body language - our own and the one of the horse. 

I find that if we become more aware of our behavior and the behavior of the horse, we observe us and we collect information. Which in return helps us to make good decisions - meaning decisions that enhance our training and our relationship with the horse. 

This is why I recommend to spend time with the horse just focusing on observing and feeling. Don't aim for something apart from attention and having a closer look than usual. I think that is beneficial no matter if you are a horsemanship newbie or an experienced horse person. 

You don't have to do anything, just be with your horse and ask yourself (some of) the following questions. 
- How do I use my body?

Think if you are tense or relaxed and how you breathe. Do your arms and legs hang casually or are they braced? Where have you put your weight? How do you hold the rope? Check if you are looking at the horse or if you can feel where he is and what he does without actually watching him. 

- Where am I respectively to my horse's position?

Check if you are close next to each other and if you feel crowded. Are you standing next to your horse's head or further back, maybe at his withers? Have the two of you moved? In which direction does your belly button point (yes, this is important)?

- What does my horse do? 

Is he relaxed or does he want to move around? Check where his attention is and how he carries his head. Does he adapt to your movements? 

I think the range of observations we can make without actually doing something is quite amazing. 

Last year, I attended a clinic with Leslie Desmond. The participants were standing next to their horses when she advised one to shift her weight from the leg nearest to her horse to the other leg. Instantly, the horse lowered his head and breathed out deeply. We underestimate the importance of these small details - when we are aware of them that is to say

Of course, you can observe your horse whenever you want and not just standing still next to you (we actually do it every day). I just think that starting out from a stand still is the easiest way to do it deliberately because you can fully concentrate on it without having to manage anything else. Which would be the case if you'd actively ask something from your horse. 

At the beginning it is not important which questions you ask and which answers you'll receive observing your horse and you. It's also not about scrutinizing or judging the answers. 

I think the important thing is to observe the horse in different situations, to get used to it and turn it into a habit. In the end, we are not only aware of the horse almost unconsciously, we also learn to react correctly without having to give it much thought. 

Interestingly enough, we don't have to actually look at the horse to observe it. This is helpful when leading the horse, for example. For me it's important to know where he is at (in terms of place and emotions) without  having to turn constantly. Horsemen and -women don't want you to turn your head neither. Pat Parelli says "Don't look back, he won't change color",and Leslie Desmond indicates that a human that turns his head often when leading the horse casts doubt in the horse if he actually knows where he wants to go.  

Also, it's not that hard to sense where and how the horse is walking behind us - we just need to concentrate on and direct our attention to it: We can look from the corner of our eyes, we can listen to the hoofbeats, we can observe the horse's shadow on the road (if the sun is in a good position) or we can just try to sense the dimensions of our bubble and if the horse is outside or crowding it. 

Have you ever thought about the level of your awareness around your horse? Have you tried to feel and watch closely? Or has it become something you do automatically without thinking?

Michael Henaghan Clinic

Due to unforeseen scheduling conflicts the upcoming July 18 & 19 Michael Henaghan Clinic is canceled and anticipated to reschedule in September/October of this year.  Please stay tuned for details.

Traders Point Horse Show 2015 Reminder

Just a quickie reminder to everyone interested in showing at Traders Point this year...  Stall reservations are due July 22nd which means the entries HAVE TO BE POSTMARKED BY JULY 22ND in oder to be considered timely.  Without paid stall reservations it is guaranteed that you will not be able to secure a stall for yourself at this show, no exceptions.

Attached is the pdf link to the prize list for your utilization.  If you'd like us to complete and send in the stall reservations for you please have your checks for the stall fees only (made payable to Traders Point) in the Sport Horse office box no later than Sunday July 19th.  Thank you and happy showing everyone!

Things to ponder...

Beingwithhorses.blogspot:

Leading Horses - Why I Don‘t Care About A Right Position

 Friday, May 01, 2015  No Comments

Lately at the barn: The frisian is defiant, too much energy, he bucks and roots his head. After  a good run, we walk around the arena together. Walking, coming to a halt, backing up, and walking again. I pay attention to him reacting instantly and I correct him rather strictly. 
 

Same task on the way back to his stall (where grain and hay are already waiting for him). Walking, stopping, backing. He obeys right away and adapts to my speed. We arrive at the stall and I expect (and allow) him to walk in. Instead, he stops with me in front of the door and waits for me to signal him to enter. I take the halter off (he starts to fidget but he doesn‘t try to run into the stall) and he walks calmly through the door. 

Those few minutes of leading him consequently have been enough to make him wait patiently in spite of the food in the stall. 
I think that often we underestimate the value of leading our horses. We do it to go somewhere. And it doesn‘t matter really if the horse just stops for a moment to steal some hay from the rack or to have some bites of fresh gras along the way. In the worst case we drag the horse along some steps till we get to our destination. It doesn‘t make a big difference for us - but it does for the horse. 

Tania Konnerth wrote an interesting article why leading correctly is vital. Unfortunately, it‘s in German but the main point is: The horse asks us questions when being led. And it depends on our answer how he‘ll react and behave. But often we are not aware of his questions. Or we are not very particular with our answers. And the horse thinks: „Ok, if she lets me eat while leading I‘ll try that on the next trail ride, too“. Being consistent when it comes to the details pays off: It leads to obedience in the big picture.

There are different ways to lead a horse, and different trainers favor different positions. I personally pay attention to three things.

1. I don‘t lead holding the horse under his chin. Doing that I‘d make the right behavior (following nicely) uncomfortable for the horse as I‘d constantly put pressure on the halter. Also, with a tight rope, I'd pull him right on top of me. I don‘t need that in a horse.

2. I don‘t want the horse to walk right behind my back. I want him slightly to my side. If he spooks, I can spot that in the corner of my eye - and if he jumps forward he won‘t hit my back. I feel the risk of being run over is higher with a horse directly behind me (and some horses take advantage of that position and try to push the human).

3. I don‘t care if I am walking next to the horse‘s neck, shoulder or even some steps ahead of the horse. What is important though: I need to be able to control the horse from wherever I am and the horse needs to adapt to my pace. 
Some horses will like to lead and other tend to be dragged. If I allow the quick walking horse to be up front, he needs to stop when I stop - even with me being further back. The same applies for the lazy one: He is allowed to walk farther behind me, but I‘ll send him forward if he starts to drag. So if my horse prefers one position over another I am happy to let him choose - as long as he is able to walk on the others too. 

A view from a different perspective...

Attached is a link to a blog, forwarded to us by Jenn Oler, detailing some of the challenges we as horse trainers face on a daily basis.  This "read" needs no further preface or discussion, it simply is a great view from a different perspective.  Thank you Jenn for not only sharing but more so your compassion and understanding!

http://www.vineyardoakdressage.com/blog/a-labor-of-love-a-riding-instructortrainers-perspective

Brownland Farm June 2015 Wrap Up

Despite the hot and seemingly unbearable humid weather, the Sport Horse team managed to fill yet another banner with all kinds of ribbon colors.  As is customary for every show, we walked away with reflections, some rewards and some failures, and definite plans of what we need to work on when returning home.  

So without further delay, here are some details of this past week (in order of appearance):

Grady and Brian walked away with the Championship in the Thoroughbred Hunters while Grady and Andrea won their Long Stirrup under saddle class!   Aries debuted his first show by winning a Training Jumper class with Brian.  Libby & Alex won their Limit Rider Under Saddle and their best placing over fences was a 4th.  Claire and Roxy moved up to 2' Hunters from the Beginner Divisions and were rewarded with 4th and 6th placings in the Short Stirrup.  Snoopy & Violet placed 3rd & 4th in the Pre-Children's Hunters, Amy & OMG were 1st in their Modified Juniors Equitation classes. 

Congrats to everyone! 

Lesson Schedule Update

In observance of the July 4th Holiday there will be no lessons with Brian this week, July 1st through July 4th.  The regular lesson schedule will resume next week, beginning with Wednesday July 8th.  Have a great and safe Holiday Weekend everyone!

Lesson Schedule Update...

There will be NO lessons with Brian the week of July 22nd, 2015.  If you are interested in make ups please complete the Lesson Make Up Form below and we'll be in touch soon with scheduling options.  

Summer Lesson Schedule

With school either already out or on the verge of wrapping up, we've received several request for scheduling changes, particularly morning lessons with Brian.  In order to try and put together such an undertaking please complete the attached form and we'll keep you posted of our progress!  Thank you and here's to a great summer!

We will keep you posted of our scheduling progress based on your answers.  Thank you.

Pasture Rotation...

It's that time of year...  Spring has FINALLY sprung, the grass is growing like a weed (literally) and yes, the mares are in heat!  So don't take for granted that you know where your horse is turned out or stalled next time you come out.  Peace is hard to keep during this challenging time and injury prevention is number one!  So, check the turn out sheet by the office to make sure you know where you're heading...  Happy trails everyone!

Brownland Farm April 2015 Wrap Up...

Roxy and Claire finished up the show week with sunshine and plenty of ribbons!  For their FIRST SHOW EVER, they managed to bring home 2 firsts, 3 seconds, 4 thirds, 1 forth, 1 fifth and 1 sixth place ribbon in the Beginner Opportunity Divisions.  It was a phenomenal ending to not only a great week but the beginning of what looks to be a promising season for this team.  Way to go Sport Horse Ponies & Jockeys!

Mike is coming! Mike is coming!

Yes folks, you've heard it right...  Michael Henaghan is coming back to Sport Horse!  Mark your calendars for July 18 & 19, 2015 and plan on getting your reservations in early.  You may register via the website under "payments & registrations" or contact us via email/facebook and I will send you an electronic pdf reservation form that you can print off and snail mail with a check.  The deadline to do so is May 15th and refunds for the clinic WILL NOT BE GIVEN unless there's another rider who will take your place.  Don't miss this opportunity to ride with one of the greatest horseman of our time!

I've enclosed a link of the snippets we managed to capture during the 2014 clinic:

Horse Show Update...

Despite the "wet" welcome from the cloudy skies of Tennessee, Grady and Brian managed to bring home the Reserve Championship in the TB Hunters of Brownland Farm Spring Show.  Videos for your viewing pleasure are attached.  Enjoy!

Things to ponder...

Here's another great blog from Nadja, the German Natural Horsemanship Rider that I happen to stumble across on the internet.  It's truly refreshing to read her material, so out of the ordinary and thinking "outside the box".  Enjoy...

“Do you remember the newsletter where I wrote about that arabian mare with the biting issues? This is what I wrote:

”Being bottle fed, the arab mare has been fixated on human hands from an early age and she shows quite a bit of aggression and unpredictable behavior. Sometimes, she’ll be very happy to have her face touched and groomed. Other times, she’ll root her head, come at you and try to bite you. If you use your hands too much, she’ll get agitated with her head. She has trouble to accept moving hands without expecting anything from them (good or bad). She has received too much food and too much beatings: Because people beat her when she becomes agitated and tries to bite.”

I got to know her in november and we had quite some issues. It was almost impossible to ask her to bend or shape head and neck from the ground as I was busy defending my hands against her attacks. So after these fights I wondered why her biting was so unpredictable and I came up with the idea that our hands were unpredictable for her too. So it was our part to become more predictable in order for her to do the same. I suggested to the friend who owns her to never smack her head and to never feed her out of her hands again. I wanted to neutralize the hand.

This horse is so smart

So now I am back from another visit and guess what: The unpredictable biting is gone - almost completely. She is still a very mouthy horse but her expression is soft.
What I also find is: She is one of the (if not the) smartest horse I know. Not only is she fearless but also able to build almost logical connections. Which gave us trouble with the biting issue. It wasn’t enough to not just feed her directly from the hands. We needed to make sure that she didn’t link our hands with food at all. So for example it wasn’t enough to just put an apple on the ground and then allow her to eat. If she was standing next to it, she would know that the hand delivered the apple and still link it with food.

Another observation: She is totally cool when putting the bridle on. To me, it feels like she knows this is not about her head but about the bridle. But she doesn’t like it too much if you try to steer her nose or head in a way that involves constant pressure. So for example, she still tends to root her head when she feels held by both reins too much and then tries to bite the rider’s (aka my) legs. But I am very confident that we can help her through it by slowly increasing and getting her used to it. I am happy with her progress and I am happy because I understand her better. I can relate better to her nature and her spirit.
When we first met, the first thing she did was try to turn the initial sniffing into a firm bite. When I worked with her on the rope, she refused to look at me and deliberately turned her head into the other direction. This time she sniffed me and investigated - but no nibbling and no biting. Plus - she chose to look at me. Not constantly but more often.

I hope this was of some interest for you - for me it was a huge experience.

Nadja”